This is a transcript of On Board Senior Writer Marc Humbert's interview with Assembly Education Chairwoma Cathy Nolan (D-Queens)on May 18, 2009.

Q: We just heard this week about the death of an assistant principal in Queens (of swine flu). You are not only the Assembly's Education Committee chairwoman, but you are also a mother and your son goes to public school in Queens. Your thoughts?

A: It's very scary for any parent in a situation like this. People forget the size of the New York City system. When they say 11 schools (have been closed), each of those schools has about 1,500 to 1,800 children so that's in many parts of the state a good-sized school district. And yet in the sense of being part of 1,000 schools, you know, what's 11? We are over 1,000 schools now (in New York City). It's very serious.

I do have some confidence that the New York City Health Department has handled it in the right way. It's a terrible thing that this man passed away. It's sort of a line of duty thing. I understand he didn't want to leave. He was trying to be very strong for the kids. Your heart goes out to them and you hope the family finds some peace. He certainly had a wonderful record.

     But it's very, very challenging right now, and you worry. Of course, you worry. Some of those schools have had issues in the past. IS5 was not a well-ventilated school. Some of these schools have had complaints in the past that they were overcrowded and not well ventilated, so you do have wonder whether that has contributed to the rapid spread.

But, except for that, in terms of the immediacy of it, I think the health department has handled it cautiously, but correctly. I am not going to second guess whether the school should have been closed sooner or anything like that.

Q: What grade is your son in?

A: He's in 5^th grade.

Q: What school does he go to?

A: He goes to a regular New York City public school.

Q: In Queens.

A: Oh yes, yes.

Q: Has his school been closed?

A: No. We'll see what happens. I know that they are monitoring attendance very carefully. He is, thank God, a healthy sweetheart. That's his picture right there. Nicholas. He's a doll.

     It's very challenging to do a job like this and have a young child. There is no question about that. But I get a lot of support from my husband and from my family, and from him now. He's a big kid. He's 11 now.

Q: This was a tough year budget-wise for schools and as you know the federal stimulus money is scheduled to run out in two years and there are predictions schools could be in for an even greater shock when that happens. What do you think?

A: I don't think that. First of all, there is time for the economy to recover. Second of all, we don't know whether the federal stimulus will be extended in some way or whether it will be there. And, I have a lot of confidence that President Obama is on the ground, that they are listening to people.

Two years? As Mario Cuomo used to say, between then and now, a pope could be born. That's a long time in government. I am confident that the commitment to the school remains.

There is no question the economy is in very, very bad shape so the schools have to respect some of that. There are some real time cuts and some real time hardships that schools are going to have to face. We never like to see that, but that's a reality. But I think we are planning for the future and I think there is some stabilization already in economy. It is certainly the No. 1 commitment.

I was teasing these other people (at an earlier meeting). I am really lucky. I have chaired other committees in the Legislature. To chair the committee that everybody agrees should be the No. 1 priority is actually kind of fun. I think people have to be reassured of that commitment. Speaker Silver talks about it all the time. Our conference talks about it all the time. And, I think our record in the Assembly majority has shown that has been our No. 1 priority over the more 30 years we have been in the majority.

Q: What are the major education issues facing the Legislature and the governor?

A: The funding issue obviously.

First of all, there are capital issues. New York is an older state, a lot of older buildings. It's not just in New York City that that's the case. So how do we upgrade, remodel and make sure that the schools have both a decent physical plant and the kind of technology that schools need today, the electrical upgrades. That's going to be a challenge for the future, a practical one.

I also think, we have a lot of confidence in Merryl Tisch, the new chancellor of the Board of Regents, and I think a lot of confidence in the Regents - (former Assembly Majority Leader) Jim Tallon and other people who have a lot of expertise - but I think we need to make sure that the curriculum reflects the changing world that we are in, that the Regents take a lead in their P-16 - there is no question we want to encourage children to go on - some say now it should P-20. I think our state, though it does well in the number of colleges - we have a lot of colleges and we have a lot of kids who graduate from high school - but there is no question we could do better. There is the achievement gap that everybody talks about, but also just generally we need to produce college-ready graduates, high school graduates who don't need remedial work when they go to college.

The Legislature is trying to make sure the resources are apportioned more equally through the CFE settlement. But also, generally, we put a lot of money into technology, into expanding resources for schools.

There are a few other things that are more hot button. We have about 700 school districts. Should we start to look at consolidation? Does consolidation achieve savings? Is BOCES the answer? Is more innovative use of school superintendents the answer? School board people; what kind of training do they get? It's a lot of work to be on a school board. If we consolidate, does that mean too much is expected of people? Does it lose local input? There are questions about it, but I think in an economic crisis you have to start to look at things like consolidation as a possibility. That's a more controversial issue and I'm sure we'll hear from your readers about that. But it's certainly something we can't be blind to. I would certainly want to look at where the Regents would go with that and we'll be talking to the school boards and others about that.

Q: You mention the Regents and Merryl Tisch. One of their first big jobs is finding a new commissioner. What should they be looking for?

A: I certainly want someone who is willing to not just listen to all the interest groups, but be out there with children and parents. I had a very good relationship with Commissioner Mills. I thought he was really a professional's professional - very, very knowledgeable. I mean the guy sat through these budget hearings in the Legislature and people would be just grilling him for three hours. He never lost his cool, always had answers and the facts at his command. So, you definitely need that component, but I think it would also be good to have someone who taught in a classroom at one time in their career, was a superintendent or principal at one time in their career, who has some sense of the challenges people face on the ground.

Q: Maybe for the first time ever we have the two education committees (in the Assembly and the Senate) headed by women. Do you think that's going to make a difference?

A: It is the first time. It's kind of ironic. Teaching is a profession that has long been open to women and yet in some ways - we've never had a women chancellor in the New York City system, we've never had a woman commissioner, Merryl Tisch is the first chancellor of the Regents to be a female, Suzi (Oppenheimer) is the first one (to head the Senate Education Committee) and I'm only the second one (in the Assembly) - Connie Cook, who was a great leader, had it. So, it's sort of amazing when you take an issue that's long identified with women (and it) didn't have women in leadership roles. But time is moving on and that's a good thing. Suzi and I can bring a lot of practical experience to the positions and I'm hoping it'll reflect in the committees' agenda. We certainly have a good working relationship.

Q: Do you think women bring a different perspective to it?

A: We talk about this all the time in the office. Sometimes we do. You know, I don't want to make too many generalities, but I think as women come up, newer women won't have the same perspective of Suzi and I - that feeling sometimes that you had to push to be a trailblazer. That probably will be better. But right now, women in leadership positions usually feel that they've had to prove, that you're always proving yourself. You do feel a little pressure when you are only the first or second to do something, but hopefully that will change over time and for the next woman who has this job, it will be easier.

Q: By the same token, we have a situation where all the leaders - the governor, the (Assembly) speaker and the (Senate) majority leader are all from New York City. How is that changing things?

A: I think there has to be more open sensitivity or outward sensitivity, just sensitivity generally to the fact that we wouldn't want it to be seen as too much dominance by one region of the state. The state's flourished when it's had a creative tension between its suburban, rural and urban regions.

I think they are all pretty good politicians. They'll figure out ways to highlight the contributions of upstate and the suburbs. I think Kirsten Gillibrand's selection (by Gov. David Paterson to replace Hillary Clinton in the U.S. Senate) was clearly driven a little bit on regional issues. Tom DiNapoli, our comptroller, is from the suburbs. So, there is some balance on the ticket if you look at it that way in that there will be an upstater (and) a suburban person. In terms of the whole state leadership, there is someone representing each region.

Q: As an upstater, and probably most people don't know it, you were born in ...

A: I was born in Syracuse! You can't tell it from my accent. I have a very strong Queens accent. My brother and mother are living in Syracuse right now. My nieces attend school in the Syracuse area. I've always loved upstate. My father was a Fresh Air Fund kid and that's how the whole thing started. So, we think of it as one state. A lot of upstate people don't think city people feel that way, but having been coming to Albany for 25 years, I feel like I'm an honorary upstater, if nothing else.

Q: How did you wind up being born in Syracuse?

A: Really and truly, my father was a Fresh Air Fund kid and the family that sponsored him all those years was a rural family in Jordan, N.Y., and when he came out of the service (the Air Force), they encouraged him to move up there with my mom and they helped him get a job with the phone company. Eventually, my mother missed her family and that's why they came back to the city. But they lived up there quite awhile.

Q: How old were you when you moved back to the city.

A: Just a baby. But, we always visited up there and had many friends in the Syracuse area. We go to the State Fair. Your school board members should make sure that city people know about things like the State Fair. I think city residents would love it if they went up there for it. It's a lot of fun.

I had my hip replaced last year and it sort of slowed me down a little. I didn't get to upstate as much as I thought I would. But, we are going to the State Fair this year and I'm hoping, now that I have recovered, that I'll be visiting more upstate schools and more rural schools and see what some of their needs are.

Q: Do you think your New York City colleagues understand how serious the issue of school property taxes is for their non-city colleagues?

A: I do because we all hear about it, certainly from our suburban colleagues, all the time. And everybody in Queens, we are so close to Nassau (County on Long Island), we know that your property taxes go up much more. The Assembly has talked about doing a progressive property tax or a circuit-breaker property tax and I think that is the way to go. There are people with many of millions of dollars worth of homes in some parts of the state, they probably should pay a little bit more in property taxes for their phenomenal dwellings than some senior citizen who has been living in the same home for 30 years. So, I think progressivity or a circuit breaker is the way to go and that is kind of what we have been pushing.

Certainly the governor wants to come to the people of upstate and the suburbs with some answers on this before he faces the voters (next year).

Q: You and your husband probably could have sent your son to any school you wanted, but you choose the public school system. What went into that decision?

A: Well, I think he's getting a wonderful education in a public school. Things could change. In middle school, it's a very difficult time. I might look at a parochial school or a private school if I don't feel he's doing well, but so far he is doing really well in the school that he goes to. He's gotten a very fine education.

Actually, I'm going to visiting the Windham-Ashland-Jewett school district on Friday with my son on a school trip to visit the New York City reservoir system. His school is not far from the East River, so the whole theme of the school has been water quality. I think that is where public schools have a lot of strength, well-trained teachers, certified teachers and the ability to draw on the marvelous resources we have, not just in the city, but in the state. This program that is about the reservoirs really has as much to do with upstate as it does with the city.

This is how great things are today. My son and his classmates made a little movie themselves about natural gas drilling in the Catskills and about clean water quality. They explored it and they wrote it. That's the kind of thing that's almost unique to the public schools.

Q: You have a bill that would give the state Board of Regents veto power over charter school approvals. What is that about?

A: The education committee considers about 600 pieces of legislation a year and only a handful of them go on to become law. A lot of them we introduce - I'm a big believer in putting a bill out there so people can study it and not just have that backdoor stuff that so often seems to happen in Albany, that backroom stuff.

Charter schools have been around for 10 years now. At the time (the charter school law was approved), there was a desire to have two chartering entities, the Regents and SUNY. I think it's a fair question to ask, 10 years into it, whether SUNY is the right vehicle for that?

I know in my own district and in many parts of the city, frankly, SUNY does not do enough to recruit city school students (to go to SUNY colleges and universities). I would say in my own district, very few kids attend SUNY schools, very few kids attend Cornell. Both the private schools and the SUNY schools have to do more to reach out to urban children, urban kids, and get them. It's one of our state's great strengths and I think I would like to see them do more of that. It's a fair question to ask, if they are the right chartering entity.

Q: With mayoral control, what do you think is going to happen?

A: Nobody wants to go back to the old system. It wasn't working. We all know it wasn't working. I was an enthusiastic supporter of mayoral control (when it was passed in 2002). I am very interested in the recommendations of Betsy Gotbaum, our public advocate.

The old board of education did a lot of things badly, but there was a public meeting process every month where people knew where the contracts were. We're talking about a $20 billion organization. I think people need to know where the money goes. From a policy point of view, that's important.

Also, there has been some frustration. As a parent myself, and other parents, without district superintendents, who do you go to when you have a complaint? A million children and their parents cannot e-mail (Chancellor) Joel Klein all at once. That doesn't work. So, there has to be some middle level of accountability.

And, I have been a little disappointed there hasn't been more emphasis on middle schools, and that's not just because my child is going to go into one. I think they are very overcrowded, certainly, and they've been sort of a step child over the years.

Q: Do you have a magic formula yet for new mayoral control legislation?

A: No, I don't think we do. I think we are looking at perhaps enhancing the role of parents in some way, whether that is through leadership teams or the CEC, the Community Education Council.

Q: You think we're going to see fixed terms for the (New York City) board members?

A: It's too early to say. We're still talking in general terms. It's certainly under discussion.

Q: Will it get done by the end of June (when the current mayoral control law expires)?

A: I think, yes. I think there is a real will on the part of Speaker Silver to get it done. But I know it takes three to dance in Albany (governor and both houses of the Legislature), so we'll see.

We've heard from a lot of people. The question now is can we come up with something that deals with some of these issues about transparency, and accountability, and parental involvement. That's where we are at.

Q: You got caught up recently with the New York Post in this back and forth about what happened to the commission on tenure and value-added. What really happened?

A: You know, the Post can decide what they want to write about is really what happened, and they decided to write about something that happened a year ago. That's their choice.

We had been working with the School Boards Association and all those people on the issue of whether there should be some study of value added. In other words, how much (student) testing scores should play a role (in granting teacher tenure), if at all. There are a whole group of people that don't think testing scores should play a role at all.

And, so while we were talking about that during the budget (negotiations) there was some talk that the governor would do a chapter amendment. And, as you know, which didn't come out in the Post, we had a change in governor right in the middle of that, and I think that set it back a bit and then I left for a couple of weeks to have my hip replaced and the chapter was never really sent over from the governor's office. On the last day of the session, the Senate voted on their version of the chapter, but I wasn't here and it was actually sent to Government Operations - it was mislabeled, it was sent to the wrong committee - and we've just never considered it.

I think the issue is, frankly, not even being discussed this session. I guess tenure issues will always be part of the legislative debate, but despite the Post stories, there has been no real effort from anybody to address it. It wouldn't be a chapter (amendment) anymore. It would have to be a free-standing bill and I don't think anybody's really come out with that yet. Mayoral control is the 800-poung gorilla, and property taxes. So, between that and the property tax issues, and the economy and the budget, I think that's just gotten lost.

Q: Philosophically, do you think there should be linkage between student performance and teacher tenure?

A: There is an old cliché: If one student fails, it's the student's fault. If the whole school fails, it's the teacher's fault.

I think everything should be on the table. I try to not get too involved in these issues. I rely a lot on this committee on the professionals - whether that's the Regents, whether that's all the advocacy groups, like your own school boards group. We read a lot here. We get inundated with reports. Everybody and their mother wants to write about the school system. We'll have to see. I have some mixed feelings about it.

Everything is on the table, but you have to be careful because testing is a whole industry in and of itself. So how much value it ultimately has? You know, I am not an anti-testing person. I have some colleagues who are very anti-testing. One of the things I have liked about mayoral control is the universality of the curriculum. But, then there are people who argue that sets a low floor. The list goes on and on.

We can use technology in different ways. We have to be realistic. Technology is so different then when you and I went to school, and it can be used in positive ways. I'm open to everything, but probably we'll look to the Regents on that.

Q: You have strong labor credentials.

A: But that doesn't mean - I hope that I can be objective about all the issues. Clearly, my father was a shop steward, that's where I come from.

Q: You have been very successful in your career and eventually Shelly Silver is going to retire. Would you be interested in becoming the first female speaker of the Assembly?

A: (Laughs) We're going to end the interview. I have to go over to session.

I am very close to the speaker and I want him to serve for a very long time, so we're not going there. I very much enjoy what I am doing.